Category: the Rant Board
Hi,
I would like to know of your experiences with companies. I would like to know of other peoples experiences with companys that won't send documents in braille and other accessibility issues. Here is an account of my experience with Orange.
Several months ago, I visited an Orange shop on Princes Street in Edinburgh to discuss an upgrade to my Orange contract.
I am visually impaired/blind and, as such, require an accessible phone.
I was assured by one of the staff, a man named Omar, that the Motorola DEXT would be suitable for my needs. I was informed it has TTS installed. After much effort on my part it became clear that the DEXT is not, in fact, accessible and is completely unsuitable. It does not include any TTS system. My partner was with me at the time and will verify I was told the phone is accessible.
I attempted to raise this matter with the shop, and was told there was nothing they could do to help.
After emailing customer services I was told to go back to the manager of the shop and that they cannot help me. When they called me back the customer service agent was very abrupt/rude and told me that their hands were tied.
I went into a shop in Sauchiehall Street in Glasgow. They contacted the shop in Edinburgh. Omar at first claimed he could not remember me, and then insisted he told me to phone Customer Services for advice.
I then phone Customer Services. They were rude and insisted there was nothing they could do.
It has become clear that I was misled regarding this phone, presumably in an effort to get me to renew my contract. Nobody at Orange is prepared to do anything about this.
I regard this as illegal mis-selling.
This is the second time Orange has erred with an upgrade. On the previous occasion I rang Customer Services upgrades department and explained I needed a phone running either a Symbian or Windows Mobile operating system. They told me the LG Viewty was accessible and on Windows Mobile. When I received the phone it was quite clear this was not true. I returned the phone and eventually upgraded to an SPV-650 which, when speech was eventually installed, ran very slowly and actually worked, after a fashion, despite regular firmware crashes.
The DEXT was completely unusable. CISAS (the apparently independent adjudicator: paid by Orange) were, shall we say, biased, accused me of lying and offended me deeply.
Orange customer services are abominable, who pass the buck and refuse to do anything complicated, require the use of of more than one neuron, and never let you speak to a manager or team leader, which means you can’t escalate a complaint.
I do not recommend Orange.
How do we tackle companies that act in this way?
Maria
.
So typical for companies to give you the run-around. All I can suggest is for you to do your research before you buy a phone. You have access to the internet. I don't know if code Factory or Nuance opperate across the pond; those companies produce speech for mobile phones here in the US. But I know that most people are idiots. I don't expect to walk into AT&T which is a mobile phone company here, and ask for an accessible phone. the sales girls would just look at me like I'm stupid. They have no idea what phones are accessible for the blind. It's not in their job description for them to know.
As a consumer, you need to be smart and do some homework before you shell out how many ever pounds or euros on a phone. Know what you want, and if the store doesn't have it, order it online. the world isn't geared towards the blind. The wider world doesn't know what we need, what phones are good for us, what software runs on which phones. They only know what's popular on the market. When I went for my first accessible phone, I settled on a crappy model, because it was the cheapest one that worked. Now, I bought my second phone after looking around the list of accessible phones and picking one of those that I liked. I then ordered it from Amazon.
Phone companies arn't responsible for knowing what you need, or sending you braille documents by the way. They shouldn't have been rude to you, and they should have tried to be more helpful. But you have to understand that in the US anyway, a blind person has to figure out what they want in a phone before they waltz into a mobile store and add it to their plan.
#HauntedReverie
I explained to the staff in the store exactly what phone was required.
I work with TTS systems for mobile phones and new what model OS was required for my needs.
I have worked with SmartHal, POcket Hal, Mobile Speak, and Nuance Talks & Zooms.
I was lied to on purpose to get me to extend my contract.
I went to Rogers once and asked for an accessible phone, preferably one with Mobile speak or Talks, and the guy didn't have the slightest clue what I was talking about. He tried to work with me, though, and what I ended up getting was a Nokia E71 that was partially accessible. It could read my contacts, read caller ID, and texts, but it couldn't read my Email, and I couldn't do anything online with it either. But the guy was honestly trying to help. He just didn't have the slightest idea how accessible a phone really needs to be. As HauntedReverie said, it's not always the company trying to take advantage. Sometimes, they just really don't have a clue. Even if you know exactly what you're looking for, Tech support and all that is trained to work with the people who don't, and sadly, many of them really don't know how to think outside the box. Now, it's possible you were taken advantage of, and that's horrible if you were, but it's hard to say exactly that that's what they were intending to do.
I don't see how, if someone tells them exactly what he/she wants, they could screw it up, particularly if the customer is a professional. I could understand if someone went to them with some general ideas or just said "I need something accessible" but it sounds as if Azzabat really knew the type of phone that would be needed here and explained it clearly. So I'd have to say that they were just trying to sell whatever was popular without actually listening.
#MissDancerAlica
After you PM, I realised that I had not included information about Orange PCS. Orange PCS is a company very similar to AT7T in the US. They offer mobile phone services on contract.
#Tiffanitsa
The retail store were only interested in getting me in and out as fast as possible. I expect that i was lied to because Orange make more profit out of this particulat model. (e.g they bought them cheap and in bulk)The represtntative lied about the phone as he knew that once it had been activated and I had left the store, I had no recourse. Orange have told me so many lies since that I have lost count. It ended up with me going to an "apparantly" independant adjudactor (who's wages are paid by Orange). Who sided with Orange. I have copied my last comments with regard to there decision in the next post.
I have now had some time to consider your ruling regarding ADJUDICATION REFERENCE: 212100998.
I would like to draw the following inconsistencies to your attention.
You state:
"I note that I have not been provided with any substantive evidence that Dr Apaza Marchaqa specified her particular needs to a member of staff in the Orange shop in Edinburgh. Therefore, I cannot be satisfied that she made it clear to the staff at the Orange shop that she required a mobile phone appropriate for the visually impaired, namely a mobile phone that was compatible with TTS software."
I would suggest to you that if a person with a guide dog or carrying a long cane goes into a store selling mobile telephones it should be blatantly obvious what her needs are - a mobile telephone with accessibility functions.
It is unreasonable to assume that this person will have made a recording of the conversation that took place in the shop. When was the last time you know of anyone making such a recording, excepting undercover investigations? You seem to expect that this recording was made and can be made available to you.
When I went into the store I specifically asked for a mobile phone with a Symbian 60 or Windows Mobile Operating System or an iPhone of 16Gb, as the smaller model does not contain Voiceover. I made clear to the store representatives exactly what I needed. There is an independent witness to this.
Even had I not made this clear, it should have been obvious to any reasonable person that a phone with accessibility functions was necessary.
Therefore your statement above is not a reasonable conclusion.
You further state that:
"Although she submits that she contacted the Orange shop in Edinburgh on a number of occasions to request that an appropriate phone be provided to her, I note that I have not been provided with substantive evidence of any such contact with the Orange shop in Edinburgh."
Do the staff of the Edinburgh store recall or record all contacts they have with Orange customers? I have returned to the store on several occasions, on one occasion with a different independent witness, who is also blind and has a guide dog, and attempted to resolve the issue, only to be treated dismissively.
As noted above it is unreasonable to expect a customer to record every conversation that takes place in a retail store. Orange do not record every contact with a customer.
It is therefore unreasonable for you to expect such evidence.
You go on to state that:
"Although Dr Apaza Marchaqa states that she contacted Orange Customer Services on several occasions, I am mindful of Orange’s submission that the first recorded contact received from Dr Apaza Marchaqa was an e-mail dated 20 September 2010. I note that Orange has searched its call records and has found no complaints made by Dr Apaza Marchaqa earlier than this date. I therefore accept Orange’s submission that the earliest date on which it was aware of Dr Apaza Marchaqa’s complaint was 20 September 2010."
Again, it seems unreasonable to assume that a customer will record every conversation they have with Customer Services. While many would not even address my query, others did not appear to understand what I was asking, perhaps due to English being a foreign language to these representatives, others simply stated their hands were tied. It seems that as a result of this, the matters that these calls regarded were not recorded. Whenever an attempt was made to escalate the complaint, I was told a manager would contact me. This never happened.
Since Orange Customer Services insist the only way of emailing them is through their web site, I have no dated copies of contacts made with them. I had one telephone call from an Orange representative with regard to my repeated emails informing me that Orange Customer Services could not deal with an issue relating to Orange Shops, as they are apparently two separate entities. I was informed that the only way to gain redress was through the manager of the Orange store who, as has been shown, refused to take any remedial action. As was noted in my original submission, I was told their "hands are tied".
Since Orange Customer Services do not regard this as their problem, it is unreasonable to assume they have any record of communications with them over a matter over which they have no jurisdiction.
I emailed the executive office out of exasperation. This contact, as it was written to the Orange executive office, using an email address that I had to spend some time locating, is therefore the first contact Orange have to admit to, as there is dated evidence.
I have two independent witnesses who will stand in court and verify their experience of this matter. One will verify what I was told with regard to the Motorola DEXT. The other will verify how I was rudely dismissed by staff at the Edinburgh Princes Street store and left the store in tears.
You state:
"I am satisfied that Orange resolved Dr Apaza Marchaqa’s request for a compatible phone on 24 September 2010, whereby Orange arranged for the return of the ‘Motorola DEXT’ and to have an ‘iPhone 3GS’ sent out to Dr Apaza Marchaqa."
This is not the case. At this time Orange offered me an iPhone 3GS 8Gb, which does not contain Voiceover. I have returned the Motorola DEXT in the envelope provided. I went into an Orange store elsewhere and paid for an upgrade to the iPhone4 16Gb, which does have Voiceover installed. I accept I now have an accessible phone, but your understanding of events is incorrect.
You state:
"I am mindful that I have not been provided with any substantive evidence that Dr Apaza Marchaqa was given erroneous advice by a representative of Orange at the Orange shop in Edinburgh in January 2010 which induced her to purchase the ‘Motorola DEXT’."
I have an independent witness to this, who will verify that I was told by a man identified as Omar that the Motorola DEXT was TTS compatible, even though I had asked for Symbian or Windows Mobile Operating Systems, or the iPhone 16Gb. I understand exactly what I require, and asked for it. I was told the Motorola DEXT met those requirements.
You state:
"I am also mindful that I have not been provided with any substantive evidence that Dr Apaza Marchaqa attempted to communicate her complaint to the Orange shop in Edinburgh or to Orange’s Customer Services Department between purchasing the ‘Motorola DEXT’ mobile phone and the e-mail received on 20 September 2010."
I have fully countered this statement above, in that one cannot reasonably expect such recorded evidence.
You state:
"As Orange arranged for the return of the ‘Motorola DEXT’ and for an ‘iPhone 3GS’ to be sent to Dr Apaza Marchaqa on 24 September 2010, I find that Orange resolved Dr Apaza Marchaqa’s request for a mobile phone appropriate to her needs four days after it was made aware of her complaint. Taking into account all of the circumstances of the case, I am therefore satisfied that Orange responded appropriately to Dr Apaza Marchaqa’s complaint within a reasonable timescale."
I was not sent an iPhone 3GS, and if I had been the model offered would not have met my accessibility needs. The 8Gb model which I was offered does not contain a screenreader. I had to search for and locate an accessible mobile phone on my own initiative, as what I was offered was incompatible with my needs. They repeatedly dismissed the complaint and failed to respond in a reasonable timescale. I would submit that 8 months is not a reasonable timescale.
You state:
"In light of my findings above, I am not satisfied that I have been provided with sufficient evidence that Orange breached the terms of its agreement with Dr Apaza Marchaqa to provide network services to one mobile telephone, nor am I satisfied that Orange has breached the duty of care it owed to Dr Apaza Marchaqa."
I submit that your findings are biased and contrary to reasonable expectations.
* One cannot expect a customer to keep a written or audio record of interactions with staff, especially when these are carried out in good faith. I have independent witnesses to some of these interactions.
* One cannot expect a company, in this case Orange, to keep records of all contacts with customers in a retail environment, nor is it reasonable to assume that records are entire, especially when the query is either not understood or regarded as outside the jurisdiction of the department in question. Therefore Orange Customer Services claim to have no records with regard to a complaint, while the Executive Office, who were sent a dated email from a private email address, cannot deny this fact.
* It is unreasonable to expect a visually impaired person to have detailed written documentation. Even your own organisation failed to send your findings in an accessible format. I had to have these findings read to me because you would not provide them in an accessible format. I find this demeaning.
* Orange offered me an iPhone 3GS 8Gb. This is still an inaccessible phone. I disagree that Orange had resolved my dispute at this time. If I had not sought an accessible phone I would still be waiting as at this time Orange had obviously not listened to the issue in question.
I reach the following conclusion. You have a legal background and are therefore perfectly capable of reaching these conclusions yourself. I therefore conclude your ruling was not disinterested.
I feel let down by Orange and yourself. You have treated me with contempt. I had to have a letter read to me that made me out to be a liar because you would not provide it in an accessible format so that I could read it for myself. It is clear that you have more interest in finding in favour of the company that ultimately pays you: I know that CISAS is funded by the industry. I am claiming compensation for the hassle and distress involved in this matter, and the inconvenience and expense of having to locate an accessible phone. I feel deeply insulted by Orange in that they have not taken into account my needs or disability and have been rude and dismissive. I also feel deeply insulted by this ruling.
Since raising this issue my home broadband and Orange email account have been mysteriously locked without notice. Several explanations have now been given, none making any sense, and all contradictory. Since contacting the Orange executive office yet again I was assured the matter would be resolved within 48 hours. It is over a week on, and I still have no broadband and still cannot access my Orange email account. My email is vital to me. I do not feel that this is a coincidence.
I am therefore making moves towards legal action against Orange. As they have not resolved the issue.
_______________________________________________________________________
Hi, Azzabat,
I completely understand what you are going through. I had two options here in Canada of a phone, off the shelf, that is accessible:
1) the IPhone
2) The Nokia E71 RVI, which is an exclusive Rogers cell phone that comes equipped with Talks software. I had to do some research and contact the Rogers customer service number, but I was able to get my phone.
I hope you are able to get the phone you are looking for.
One more thing: these forums are publicly viewable. I would strongly suggest not putting full names and other identifiable information on the boards.
Thanks!
Kate
Kate,
I agree with regard to not putting names in. I left the names in on purpose so that if staff at Orange dona search. They will find these posts. With regards to using the adjudicators name these are publicly listed on the CISAS website.
The iPhone is a highly accessible phone. VoiceOver works well. What annoyed me the most was the deliberate lies and deception used by a member of staff. I told the member of staff that I need a phone with specific requirements and unless I could get a phone with those requirements I would cancel my contract and go to another network that does have a phone that meet my requirements.
So he lied to get me to extend my contract.
Azzabat
My question is, if you know, as you stated earlier, that you knew what kind of phone you needed, and you have such extensive experience with accessible programs, why would you accept the phne offered to you? If I go into a candy shop, knowing that I want a snickers bar, and the shop owner says, well here's an almond joy, I don't go, "well ok, that isn't at all what I asked for, and I know it, but I'll take it anyway". Why didn't you say, "No, that isn't the phone I want, either you give me this phone or I leave". If you'd done that, you wouldn't have this problem.
Ok, this is quite a bit long and rambly, but I gather that.
a. The company employee at the store did not know enough about accessible phones and sold you the wrong product.
b. They were rude to you but
c. You got an iPhone 4 that is accessible, so your problem is technically solved, for the same price other customers got it.
Is this correct?
We cannot expect employees at general company stores to know about accessibility and what phones work and what phones do not. I wish we could, but we have to be responsible for knowing that ourselves, sadly.
So I fail to see how you were not more straight forward, did some web research on the phones offerred by orange, cross referenced it with lists of compatibility from CodeFactory or Nuance, and then you knew exactly what would work.
So, you must admit, you should have done more preparation work on your behalf. I am not saying that to "dizz" you but for others in your position, to be aware of the fact that they need to get the information themselves and not rely on others who hardly know how blind people use technology, to tell or sell them anything.
At AT&T they have an accessibility team that you can call, and that handle accessible phones for you, and I wish all companies did that (may be many of them do).
There is never an excuse for employees to be rude to customers, blind or not, but we are hardly nunique in that regard either, sighted people who feel they did not get their products as asked for often suffer similar treatment to what you described.
But it seems like you got an accessible phone, you got the service and things are working for you, so I am just not sure how far you want to take the legal proceedings. Sometimes it isn't worth it and you just need to let go, move on and remember to switch phone companies next time you get a chance. It's best for your mental health.
I have dealt with similar problems, I have gone as far as you but then I have just let go, because I don't see the point in moving further. You won't change the sales staff training, most of the sales people probably stick with the job for a year or less and are underpaid, so they couldn't care less about accessibility.
Also I think they are probably advicsed against saying anything about how well a product works with third party software, which is the case for accessibility for all phones except the iPhone really, and some very specialized models.
So, yes, it sucked, but I hope the rant has done you good and I hope you're ready to move on and be happy and switch from Orange next time you get a chance *grin*.
Cheers
-B
i agree with post 2 about needing to figure out what phone services will work with you... I know Verizon is okay with accessibility but someone can correct me. i think as long as you can explain what you need then the company should be helpful but sometimes you have to do your homework....
With regard to some of the above posts. It would help if you didn't jump to conclusions. Firstly I asked for the correct phone, what the guy in the store sold me was a " new" phone he claimed was using symbian OS.
I install Nuances Talks and MobileSpeak on a regular basis. With regard to me ngetting the iPhone, it cost me more than it would have cost me if I had been sighted. Orange are supposed to have an accessibility team, however it turned out that I ended up teaching what phones were suitable. So much for there so called "experts".
I was really surprised by what there team of so called accessibility "experts" did not know. It was the accessibility team that screwed up my first upgrade. Which is why I decided to go in the store and tell them and show then exactly what was required.
With regard to the candy bar comment above, if the store owner had offered you a snickers bar with free snickers bite size you wouldn't have said no, would you?
With regard to the rudeness of customer services, I agree that they are rude to the sighted and blind alike. However they tend to take certain liberties if you are visually impaired ( for example you can't take notes as easily). They will also avoid telling you there names so that you can't refer to a prior conversation, and have to explain from the beginning to the next customer service agent you get to speak to.
With regard to doing my homework I do not remember every phone that is compatible. I am not a computer and should not be expected to remember a list that contains over thirty current phones.
you can also ask the company to take the notes down for you so you can make sure that you have what they have said to you. also you can bring a friend with you to the store. what i was saying about doing your homework about what types of good phone is that to compare the phones out there and make sure that the phone is accessible and that you know its suppose to work for you. You can even ask a good friend who lives with you to sit with you and look at the phones on line or in store to make sure the phones have everything that you are expected to have with the phone.. thats also going with going with the right company...
in addition to what some of the other posts have said, I'd like to add that getting the desired results depends on how you carry yourself.
based on board posts alone, your attitude comes across very snotty...and that factors into how others treat you.
I'm sorry to hear you went through such craziness to get a phone, but at least you finally have one.
also, I agree with what others have said in regards to doing your homework. people that work at said stores can't, and shouldn't be expected to tell you which phones are accessible for the blind.
when i saw "Who sided with Orange" from post 6 i was thinking how could we know if those who are not from England.. It is hard to ask us what we would think but then i understand that you are trying to ask as why would you side with a company that does not listen to you.. which would better work for all because not everyone on this site is from England we are all from all over the place... Plus we would have trouble saying how bad orange is a company.. Plus i dont even have orange company for my cell phone so i cant tell you what i think of them. Others would have trouble too. but they could share their own stories of other companies too. we as the customer we have to do the homework not the company... i am sorry but do you expect the company to do the work for you? i can ask for advice as to what kinds of phones might be good but the company will try to sell something that they want you to buy but you as the customer has to do the homework.. i know i just repeated but i think.. Homework plays a big role in this issue.
well said post 11 i think that was a very good example...well said post 12 sometimes you just have to let things go and move on. Do you want to stay made at the company who didnt do the right order or to focus on something different... food for thought
I also think that at some point we have to accept that we are in fact a minority. I know that in australia not everyone knows about accessible phones, but when I was thinking of buying one I went to the vodafone shop and asked them to find out whitch ones they could get for me that I could put talks on. the woman at the shop didn't know but she was quite happy to make a phone call for me to find out whitch she did, even though she had to go through a lot of channels to do it.
and it really really really isn't their responsibility to provide anything in braille, nor should it be. If you're the type of person who's getting an accessible phone, you're also probably the type of person who's got access to an accessible computer, and thus can take advantage of online services that most banks, social securety, mobile phone providers and so many more services offer.
If not, it's also possible to receive mobile phone bills and balances directly to your phone.
I receive my phone info, bank statements, credit card bills, centrelink letters and much much more online so I can access it cheaply and privately at my own leasure, and not cut down half the amazon while I'm at it.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the customer service reps you talk to are required to give you either a name or some sort of identification number if you ask for it. Also, if you wanted to do this, you know you're allowed to record phone calls as long as they know you're recording them, which shouldn't be an issue at work since the calls are usually recorded anyway. As for the phone, it sucks that in your case, it seems like they really weren't willing to work with you, but that sort of thing isn't done by most people anyway if it isn't literally in their job description. that's how you can tell the difference between those who are working for the people and those who just want their pay cheque.
I agree with those who suggest you just switch companies. I'm not doubting your experience, having known people who have had similar ones, but there are better companies out there who will at least give you what you're paying for.
I am curious. When you say it would cost you more as a blind person to get an iPhone, are you referring to the fact that sighted people can get the iPhone 3g 8gb for less, or do you mean you are actually charged more for an iPhone 4 if you are blind?
Keep in mind, most sighted customers will not want to get a phone that is two generations old already, so I would not expect many customers want this option anyway.
If you install this software on a regular basis you should know exactly what phone works for you.
It´s simple, Nokia E or N lines are the classic examples of accessible phones, and, as far as I know, most of them work well with screen reading software, which you have to pay extra for as a blind user anyway. HTC and a few other Windows Mobile phones are accessible, not the list is not huge. Android's accessiblity is highly questionable but you are safe going with the iPhone 3GS or iPhone 4.
You can do the online shopping and compare Orange phones against what models are compatible by going to the screen reader sites, and you should have been able to easily find a phone that meets your requirements.
I cannot jump to conclusions, but I can only go by what you are telling us online, which is plenty, and I find the combination of you being an expert on mobile phones and your statement that it is Orange´s responsibility to provide you with an accessible phone, very confusing.
I feel this kind of attitude is not going to help the blind community at large get better customer services from stores, honestly.
#wildebrew
For your information Orange refused to provide any of the handsets that are compatible with Nuance Talks and MobileSpeak. When I tried to get a windows mobile OS handset, I was told " I am sorry we are no longer have that model in stock" I am on a contract which is tied into my home broadband (meaning I get my home broadband for £5 a month) so I cannot just cancel my phone service.
What the store representative did, was done because he thought it was amusing. If you read my posts above you will note that Orange offered the iPhone 3GS 8Gb. What you failed to mention is that this phone doesn't have VoiceOver installed. So after the difficulties in store and talking to the executive office they still didn't offer me an accessible phone. Despite me giving them a list of compatible models.
With regard to ordering online, that's all well and good assuming that their website works. I tried to upgrade twice online both times the upgrade failed. Also you need to take into account that regularly the phones you see online have been discontinued and they have none in stock.
Yes it cost me more to get the iPhone 4, more than it would have cost me if I was sighted. The only way to get better customer service in stores is if we educate the staff about accessibility.
Well, that's got to be some kind of breach of rules and discrimination acts to charge a blind user more for the same product (iPhone) than a sighted user. That seems to be a conceete case of discrimination, and I know the UK regulations are pretty strict and should provide you with protection.
Have you tried contacting the RNIB with your issue. This may require a blindness organization to step in and advocate, that is partly what they are there for.
They may be willing to provide you with legal assistance or otherwise press Orange on accessibility rules.
I do not think educating individual store staff is going to help, like I said earlier, their staff turnover is probably very high and attention to training programs low. You have to fight higher up and force them to install a blindness policy, allow blind users to exchange phones, give you contract on one service if they have nothing to offer regarding accessible devices on a different service.
I am surprised about your online availability comments, but I guess the UK is different. Here, the web sites are the most up to date stores and sell the latest models and available phones, not discontinued phoe models.
Definitely time to switch to a different company me thinks, but I'd suggest the RNIB should get involved.
You post enough specifics to care but, honestly, posting it on the Zone is very unlikely to ruffle any feathers and you should try to post it in a different national forum, for intsance. There is a fair number of UK folks here, but I think it is a minority and, as such, an article, complaint or posting on RNIB, or similar UK baed organization, mailing list would be more effective.
I would advice strongly against conducting business for accessibility devices in stores as a principal, but you would too after your experience I'd guess.
# wildebrew
The RNIB were not very helpful. The reasons I posted in this forum were to get other people perspectives on the issue.
I agree with the above comment about the posts sounding a little "snooty". they are written as legal arguments which always sound a litlle snooty. It had to be constructed as a legal document.
With regard to educating store staff about accessibility, it is better to educate a staff member as then when they change store or go to work for a different company company that experience may come in useful if the situation arises again. The representative who served me was the manager.
# MissAliciaDancer
Yes, I agree that I didn't explain clearly who Orange are. my fault was copying and pasting from a document. I was also attempting to get feedback and opinions on how others here would feel. For example if they had no phone for 8 months (or more to the point were paying £50 a month for a phone that was completely unusable) because you had been deceived into renewing your contract with this particular model of phone.
#OceanDream
They are suppoed to give you a name, they will not give information on what team they work for and normally you can not be put back through to the same representative that you spoke to previously. Also the building I live in has a public pay phone and no other phone lines. Not only can I not " hog" the pay phone but trying to record a conversation is near impossible. I managed to setup recording a conversation with one customer representative using a friends iPhone on loudspeaker and a dictaphone. However as soon as I informed that customer representative that I was recording the conversation for my reference she promptly cut the phone off. ( As did the next customer representative, and so on).
Yeah. it sounds like someone has something to hide. I agree with WB on this one that you'll need to go higher with this one to get anything serious done about it, as well as switch phone providers.
I still think, given your expertees on mobile phones beforehand, that you are partially responsible for the mess and you went the wrong way to go into the company's retail store and buy a phone a sales person there made claims for.
Don't get me wrong, I agree this should not have happened, and the service was awful, but I think, given the energy you had expanded on law suits and other claims after the fact, that you were surprisingly easily sold on a phone you knew was not really compatible.
I am also confused in that I thought all companies must have a return policy for devices that do not work, and if Orange has a dedicated team of accessibility people, you should have gone through them to obtain your phone or, else, purchased a phone independently.
There is a lot of used and decently accessible Nokia Symbian phones around, after the iPhone craze, at least in the U.S. and, I would imagine, in the UK as well, CraigsList is a great resource.
The MobileSpeak and Talks manufacturers have lists of compatible phones.
You know what you are getting with the iPhone.
Android is dodgy and confusing and not something one should get yet (though certain models with no touch screen are partially accessible).
And I still do not understand why a blind person pays more for an iPhone 4 than a sighted user, can you explain?
This post sounds a bit harsh, it comes off harsher than I am aiming for. No one should be gtreated like this, blind or sighted, but I just still do not understand these aspects of your post and the knowledge you have, the return policy of the company in general, and why you went about this in such a wrong way.
We, blind people, have to be the experts, just like when we go to the doctor, we should ask questions, follow up, get a second opinion and do whatever we feel is necessary to guard our health, the doctor is not responsible for our health, we are.
I almost missed a positive cancer test myself and would have, had I not followed up and gotten more sampling done. I still don't blame the dctor for that, and she gave me the option to get another sample, which I decided was the smart choice.
Why is the RNIB not interested, if you explain the problem? Many blind folks might end up with this issue, and I thought you got funding for assistive technology devices and it would be in their interest that it was used wisely (though I claim absolutely no expertees on the situation over there). I have some connections within the RNIB and could ask around
At least the moral of the story to Zone users, be careful and do your research before you buy a supposedly accessible device, especially if the person selling it probably knows nothing about accessibility.
I do agree that a manager of a store for a phone company should know something about those things, the regular sales person, I doubt it, they may move to a completely different store or industry, back to school, or do something completely different and the training is not worth it.
The change must come from higher up.
Cheers, and good luck with the fight, like I said, this is awful treatment and I am not saying you deserve it, not at all, but I do think you are playing the blindie helpless card too strongly and it is not working.
And you can't tell me a pay phone is the only option you have to call someone for 6 months, when everyone has got a mobile phone and you have broadband connection and can use Skype to call land lines for extremely cheap. That just does not make any sense. At least you are without a phone by choice in this situation.